Gerd Lüdemann has an op-ed at The Bible and Interpretation website pointing out one of the obvious benefits of the historical critical method. That is, the historical critical method exposed a quite prevalent claim of New Testament and other early Christian writers – that the Old Testament predicted or prophesied or otherwise pointed to Jesus of Nazareth – to be a false claim.
It struck me that, in the current trend to dismiss the historical critical method, which often amounts to little more than a pooh-poohing, sometimes the dramatic ways in which hist-crit in fact increased knowledge have been swept under the carpet by the mystifying broom of theological obscurantism.
Sure, the historical critical method doesn’t do everything; but what it does do, it does well.
“… it must be clear that the christological interpretation of scripture practiced by the churches for two millennia is as anachronistic as the Ptolemaic model of the universe, and that early Christians distorted many Old Testament texts to make them point to Christ. Yet more troubling is the fact that while their over-zealousness may be excused on the grounds of ignorance, many today similarly misuse the scriptures to perpetuate an ancient hoax.
Having eaten from the tree of historical knowledge, we are no longer able to take seriously an interpretation of the Old Testament that leads to Christ. All glory, laud, and honor to the founders of historical criticism for liberating us from the christological madhouse.”
(Gerd Lüdemann, ‘Liberated from the Christological Madhouse’, The Bible and Interpretation)
The Dunedin School 
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wow. I went and read the original post. This is what happens when we ignore scripture – which tells us that the Old Testament can be read in light of the mystery of Christ, in fact that the Old Testament points to Jesus…..
We see in all the Gospels, in Acts, and in Paul’s writing that the Old Testament points to Jesus Christ:
Matthew 2:4-5
4When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Christ was to be born. 5″In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written
Mark 1:2
It is written in Isaiah the prophet: “I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way”
Luke 18:31
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
John 1:44-45
44Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
John 5:39
You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me,
Acts 4:18-26
18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among his people.’ 24 “Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’[c] 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”
Romans 16:24-28
25Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him— 27to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
Galatians 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
So either the author is saying the historical critical method should trump scripture, or the New Testament is not scripture.
“… the Old Testament can be read in light of the mystery of Christ, in fact that the Old Testament points to Jesus…”
I quite agree. If you read the Old Testament in light of Christ, you will find that it points to Jesus.
In fact, if you read Little Red Riding Hood in light of Christ, you will find that it points to Jesus. Funny that.
Funny that. I always thought Little Red Riding Hood pointed to Vishnu, but it looks like I’m wrong about that one.
It points to Jesus.
It must.
Only if you read Little Red Riding Hood through a Vishnuological lens does it point to Vishnu. But through a Christological lens, it points, quite irrefutably, to Christ.
Only because Shiva wills it so.
Why do you offer no substance here, nor a rebuttal to the claims presented?
Mi mi mi!!!
“In fact, if you read Little Red Riding Hood in light of Christ, you will find that it points to Jesus. Funny that.”
Have you put this hypothesis to the test – or is it a wild unwarranted claim? The claim that “the Old Testament points to Jesus” has been pretty firmly established.
If your (sarcastic) claim turned out to be true – that is you really could find as many correlations in a random bit of literature – then you would have a point. Otherwise…
Yes, I have put this hypothesis to the test. My empirical results show that increasing the Christological colouring-level of one’s interpretative lens is inversely related to understanding the meaning of any text not already about Christ. I have surveyed a range of literature with a ‘high-coloured’ Christological lens, and have found ‘types of Christ’ in literature as varied as Machiavelli’s The Prince, Church Palahniuk’s Fight Club, Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland, and Sun Tzu’s Art of War, many of which exceed the ratio found in the Old Testament : New Testament comparison. These results are pending publication.
Have you measured your theory against the context that these things are written in? I highly doubt it. From everything I’m seeing here, there is only weak sarcasm, touting the supposed intelligence of modern man. Oh, that and a bit of bombasticity. Actually, the hippopotemusesquipedalian antics that are being shown here are only an attempt to hide a lack of understanding of Scripture as they were meant to be read. I enjoy this sort of thing. :-)
Mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi !!!!!!!
It sounds like your study really does show that if you look hard enough for something you have a need to believe is there – you *will* find it.
Sounds very interesting.
that’s how they found “Q”. They believed it was there and lo and behold, they found it, complete with theological unity, patterns, catchwords, themes and community – a single written Greek document preserved just like they thought, hoped and wished for. Ah, life is so simple.
I don’t think “distortion” is the correct word for applying a Christian template to the Old Testament. Jesus and the Apostles established a new faith, it’s true, and challenged the emphases of some Hebrew traditions, but I seriously doubt that Messianic passages in the OT were systematically or intentionally distorted. Are you going to post some evidence of this claim?
Ropata – Gerd Lüdemann uses the term ‘distorted’ in his article, in which he also gives brief examples.
The term ‘Messianic’ does not apply to any passages in the Old Testament, if by it you mean to refer to an end-times figure such as Christ. For the Old Testament does not mention a Messiah (and this includes the 39 passages in which a ‘messiah’ is mentioned). However, the New Testament certainly does refer to a Messiah/Christ and also finds references to the Messiah/Christ (although not by that term) in the Old Testament. I don’t see how the term ‘distortion’ is inapplicable to this process, so Lüdemann is correct. You may prefer ‘reinterpretation’ or ‘changing the meaning of’, perhaps?
Does your list exclude Eze. 16:63? There are others. As I have mentioned before, Shemot 23 points the way.
The term “messiah” does not have to be directly employed, in order for it to be shown. Again, look at the passage in Shemot 23. I think you’ll find a chink in your armor, there.
Mi mi mi mi mi mi mi !!!!!!!
Just nit-picking. But can Christians ever distort the “Old Testament”. Perhaps they can distort the Hebrew scriptures… but if “Old Testament” is a Christian term used to refer to the set of texts which are always attached to the NT then ….
Right. The naming “Old Testament” is already a distortion. And if this is already the case, interpreting the Old Testament in light of the New Testament would be not a distortion, but a… torsion.
So do you think Christianity is unique in this way? Or are ALL interpretations of the Hebrew texts “distortions” in the same way – including later Jewish interpretations, and indeed modern secular interpretations. I guess I am asking if you think Christianity is a *particularly* gross “distortion”
The Greek Scriptures, as we have them now, going back as far back as we can, are actually a commentary on what it is that Torah provides for us. This is clear in the writings of Rav Shaul (Paul). Many people blame him for creating a new religion. Far from it. He eludidates on what YeHoshua came to establish in the first place, which is the validity of Torah. WWJD? He’d follow Torah, same as Rav Shaul, same as any other believer should. :-)
Mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi !!!!!!!
What did YeHoshua mean when He stated, “you study Scripture because in them you think you have life, but it is they that bear witness to me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life”?
Have you studied Torah?
Can you explain to me the passage referring to YeHoshua in Shemot 23?
Can you explain to me the significance of Pesach in it propehtic meaning?
Shavuot?
Sukkot?
How about Yom Teruah?
Yom Kippur?
These are clearly prophetic in significance and are undeniably fulfilled, or soon to be.
I am not a Xtian, for they truly distort the meaning of Scripture and I will have no part of them. The problem is, you try to deny the Christian, while at the same time trying to deny Scripture at the same time.
Before you respond, try studying the things that I have posted about here and get back to us with your findings. Any snide comments show a serious discrepency in your ability to look into these things for yourself, rather, you can only go on the words of people who are thousands of years removed from the documents you try to put down.
As regarding “higher criticism,” I guess I’m at a loss between what they try to espouse and what YeHoshua said, regarding Moshe. Not only YeHoshua, but hundreds of rabbis prior to Him.
Again, please look into Pesach, Feast of the First Fruits, Shavuot, Sukkot, Yom Teruah and Yom Kippur… and tell me that they have no clearly prophetic views of YeHoshua. I think that you’ll find that there is a problem with your theory.
Perhaps you’ll come to understand the reason for the guidance we are given in Isaiah 8:20.
Take the challenge. Go ahead. I’m sure your confident enough. The list is there. It’s easy to follow.
Go for it.
I’ll wait.
Mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi !!!!!!!
I didn’t think that there was anything of significance for you to add, and this pretty much shows it. Pseudo-intellectualism (even at the level of Beaker, which appears to be quite higher than yours), or, in other words, just flappin your yap because the wind passing through your lips feels good, really isn’t too much of a good way to appear in public. I guess what was set forth must have struck a chord, or else you wouldn’t have gone to the trouble of putting all of this up.
You, just like the Christians, have failed to provoke any further coherent thought or advance any sort of argument in support of your point. I am thankful for one thing, though. At least the arguments presented will be seen by others and taken into account. For this, I am grateful.
I appreciate it.
Biyasa kang mag salitang KaPampangan? Salamat po.
Mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi mi!!!!
Huwag maging padalus-dalos sa iyong espiritu na galit, para sa galit rests sa suso ng fools.
Salamat po.
Oh we understand Tim, bad guess. Beaker, mi mi, I agree, absolutely, salamat po. :-)
I recall Jim Linville writing a post about Master Moore – a little clasheraction a while back.
Jang ninu pwede yang gumamit translation website para subukan nang sabyan ing salitang ena balu. Keng pamanyubuk mung gamitan ing tagalog ali keng kapampangan mangahulugan na ala kang kabalubalu keng pisasabyan. Nung mabiasa kang kapampangan pwede katang misabi. at tuknangan mu ing panga isip-anak at maging kang matinung kasabi. Wapin pala, jang metung ala kapang asagut kareng kutang ku. Manenaya kumu, siguru ala tanang pisabyan pa.
Your “Taglish” simply don’t cut it. :-D
Now, wanna try again answering about Pesach, Shavuot, Sukkot? Tonight is Yom Teruah, so you could even try looking that up and see how it applies directly to YeHoshua HaMaschiach.
I’m still waiting for a response… so is everyone else who might cruise by here. You’ve not done a single service to higher criticism by your silliness.
sigi na la gwa
what a fuckwit. but don’t moderate this one my darlings.
Are you not able to answer? I see the substance (or lack thereof) of your argument. Are you not able to come up with anything? Heck, I’d even go with something unoriginal. Is it that you just want to mouth off without having any sort of foundation? So far, I’ve responded to the criticism that biblical prophecies are invalid by pointing to several that have been fulfilled in YeHoshua, without any sort of generalization that could be applied to any number of people, and yet none of you have come up with any sort of argument against what has been presented, except a bunch of sophomoric statements.
It’s unfortunate.
Keep on in your way. Have fun.
I guess it must be a terrible thing to lose an argument to something of an FW, eh?
This continues to be more fun for me. Everyone gets to see our responses back and forth.
Just be careful, though, or else people might have trouble distinguishing between who the fool is and who isn’t.
Mi mi mi mi mi mi mi!!
omg you had an argument in these 32 comment columns? I’d picked you as one of those hobby horse hijackers. Well you picked the wrong podium and the people have already left the building.
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I’ve left another couple of comments now and neither mine nor yours are showing up yet because Doctor Whatsit has gone to bed.
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Jim West seems to be throwing away comments that he does not like.
Cheers! webulite.com
WTF?!! you’ve lost the plot – Dr Whatsit was a reference to a mutual friend, not Jim, on another blog who probably had, considering the time, gone to bed, so that Jim’s comment and mine had not been moderated. Dr Whatsit has now moderated the comments and if you had read Jim’s post, you would see that he had left a comment there. Jim had not ‘thrown away’ any comments. Although if you left a comment on Jim’s blog, as irrelevant as your comment here, then he would most likely throw it away.
‘cheers!’ wipee-wota-wolly